Natural England Petition Update: Some Progress Made...

10/4/2019

Hi folks,
Today I had a long and helpful chat with James Diamond, the Director of Operations for Natural England.
I believe it's always good to talk - which is why I have been keen to arrange this discussion as part of our campaign to examine and potentially overhaul Natural England's licencing system.
Mr Diamond is an affable chap, and we had what really appeared to be an open conversation.
I'm happy to say we have made some progress.

Some Good News!
And a significant result which has come about because of our campaign.
Later this year, Natural England will begin to publish figures on their website which will detail the number of licences issued by the agency, including those issued to kill birds. The first set of figures, will be published sometime in 2019 (Mr Diamond couldn't provide an exact date but assures me it will be this year).
This will detail the licences issued for 2018. The figures will include the numbers of each species for which licences have been granted and the reasons why the licence was approved. The information will be available for all to see and peruse. This development will mark the start of an annual public reporting of licencing figures from the agency.
This is a major result which no doubt would not have happened without our petition.

"It Was A Mistake To Remove The Figures..."
Mr Diamond was keen to point out that Natural England did used to publish licence information routinely in the past but assured me that 'hardly anyone looked', so the practice was stopped. "It was a mistake to remove the figures" he says, "because we have nothing to hide".
He maintains that publishing the figures will, however, 'divert staff from working in other important areas', although my own opinion would be that this information is key to gaining public trust in the agency's activities and, as such, is an essential part of their work.
Unfortunately however, Natural England have absolutely no plans to disclose the names of applicants, nor to publish licences ahead of time for public scrutiny. I suggested this would be a good idea, in the same way that planning applications are published prior to being granted. There appears to be no flexibility over this decision, "We need to protect peoples' right to privacy and confidentiality", Mr Diamond insisted.

A System That Relies Too Heavily On Honesty...?
Mr Diamond explained a five point system which those applying for a licence have to satisfy before one is issued. The applicant has to assure Natural England staff that they have tried every other method of dealing with a bird problem before a licence will be granted.
My opinion, which I shared with Mr Diamond, is that relying so heavily on the honesty of an applicant does of course leave the system open to misuse...
And while he loyally defended his team against any criticism of their decisions in granting licences, Mr Diamond admits that the agency relies heavily on the 'good practice' of applicants in fulfilling their obligation to file returns in which they are supposed to detail the final outcome of the licence, including the number of birds killed. I asked him if there should be a fine imposed for those applicants who failed to provide this information but, alas, there are no plans to impose such a penalty. I think this might be a mistake as it appears to leave this part of the system open to misconduct. Defending that decision, Mr Diamond assured me that an applicant who failed to file a report would not be granted any future licence.

The Problem Of Netting....
On a side note, I asked about the recent epidemic of netting that has been appearing on trees, hedgerows and, notably, on the Norfolk coast in recent days and weeks. Although Norfolk council said that Natural England approved the use of netting, Mr Diamond strongly rejects this. "We have no power to approve the use of netting," he said, "we only offered advice, and we have no power to ask them to remove the netting either".
It seems that there is no official authority that oversees the use of netting in this way, something which needs to be addressed urgently, though this is currently not within the scope of our petition.

Summing Up
So, in summing up, I have asked Mr Diamond for some more detailed figures relating to licences issued for two species, House Sparrows and Coots, both of which appear in the Freedom of Information data in high numbers. I'll have that information in the next three weeks or so and will report back.
Meanwhile I think we can justifiably pat ourselves on the back for the progress we have made - and plough on with seeking more openness and transparency from Natural England, it is a public agency after all.
I'm keeping in contact with Mr Diamond and will update further in due course.

Best,
Jase

32 Comments

Frances Bee

10/4/2019 05:23:46 pm

Very well done. I think persistence is the order of the day here.

My view is that request for licenses should be subject to scrutiny in some form - perhaps by local Wildlife Trust or possibly details published without the name of the applicant or exact location.

The netting issue is disgraceful. There must be some organisation that gives permission ???

Best wishes

Frances

Melissa McEwan link

10/4/2019 05:51:22 pm

Thanks for devoting so much of your time and effort to this petition.

Mel McEwan

Alli

11/4/2019 11:00:43 am

Hi Jason, I signed your petition & have just read your updated blog. Well done for getting an interview & making a slight difference. I say slight because Mr Diamond is now going to publish how many licences their are. The vital point I feel he is missing is the birds that are being murdered, netted, put under duress all because these licencees deem them a nuisance, pathetic. What really annoys me is who the hell do these people think they are for a start to think they can just take a life because the bird in their eyes is a nuisance, this is absurd this is no more than a netting, shooting playground for these sickos that obviously have nothing better to do with their time, everything that the creator of this world has put on earth should all be treated the same, time and time again human beings think they have the right to kill what they like, it seems no other species bar human should enjoy an existence. Call me cynical but this Mr Diamond to me seems not to be looking at the picture of the actual petition, why does he feel this is alright to kill, why there is no action on netting and no fine system as I can guarantee these sickos will be killing more than they report, I'll tell you why they do not regulate these licencees (killers) as it would upset them & Mr Diamond doesn't want that. It's like telling a child he / she can't do something & they throw a tantrum as they feel it's their right. I hope with continued pressure this changes as I read it's a public body so it should if the public are funding this. Thanks Jason for your continued efforts.

11/4/2019 11:08:15 am

I forgot to add please sign my petition on change.org for the Very sad life of the Dairy Cow.

http://chng.it/PFxcJHDTGn

Please read, watch and sign.
Thank you in advance.

BoB

12/4/2019 01:57:05 pm

Dunno how you kept your cool in the meeting but well done and thanks for heading up this great piece of work

Liz Goldin

3/5/2019 02:21:20 pm

Good on you,Jase - & u , Frances !

Jo Wightman

10/4/2019 05:31:25 pm

I congratulate you on drawing attention to this hitherto unknown practice. I suppose the RSPB are aware of it. Let's hope thanks to you that we get some more clarity on the subject
Jo Wightman

Sally Redgrave

10/4/2019 05:36:18 pm

I'm glad ur trying amongst this red tape x

Mr Michael westbury

10/4/2019 05:40:52 pm

i cannot understand the need to kill any wild bird or animal, other ways can be found to protect crops or domestic animals without the killing of widlife it would appear enjoyment and gun practice seams to be the main reason for killing birds and animals, all licences should be refused.

Sue Waton

10/4/2019 05:46:39 pm

Thanks for getting to speak to him and raise our concerns. I would also like us to push for more detail -anonymised if necessary- of where and when licences are issued, and for the resulting report to also confirm the numbers actually ‘culled’. Not that anyone unscrupulous would be worried by that. But local wildlife trusts or RSPB oversight would be even better.

Anna Nicholaides

10/4/2019 05:48:17 pm

Well done it's so important we have people like you who take the time and have the tenacity to ensure they are heard. So often we hear about relying on the honesty of applicants only to be surprised when they turn out to be dishonest. Thank you for continuing to try to hold Natural England to account.

John knighK

10/4/2019 05:56:23 pm

Well done, I would never have known that this one of the problems as to why some bird numbers are falling.

Terry Canham

10/4/2019 06:00:25 pm

Well done Jase for your persistence in this sorry matter. my local RSPB group was totally unaware of what goes on and , generally, were shocked. Personally I am cynical about what motivates government agencies.

Alistair MacDonald

10/4/2019 06:00:41 pm

Well done Jason. We owe you for kicking off the campaign and for following up with Natural England. We have a human voice to speak for our feathered friends !

Mrs Trish Newham

10/4/2019 06:09:38 pm

I'm pleased you have opened dialogue with NE Jase. Reading your update on progress it appears to me that Mr Diamond has said very little of meaningful use. So, he says there's a 5 point system and the applicant for a killing licence must demonstrate they have exhausted all other avenues. However, nobody checks that the applicant has indeed done that or has any method of physically checking the grounds are acurate for the licence application. As for the applicant, once granted a licence reporting back numbers killed ... from the conversation reported here there is no measure of accuracy on the figures provided to NE. How can a Public Agency hide behind protecting people's right to privacy and confidentiality and comfortably allow native wildlife to be culled like this. In many of these species numbers have plummeted and continue to decline. What is 'Natural' about supporting further decline in our native flora and fauna in appeasement of human requirements that are not robustly investigated before issuing a licence. Natural England is an extreme misnoma and an abuse of priviledge if not an assumed power and the responses you've received lack any sense of credibility.

Brian Fitzsimmons link

11/4/2019 10:26:30 am

Thanks you Trish, your comments hit the nail on the head.
If anyone requires such a licence they must be open and transparent. The Data Protection Act is just a lame excuse for people to hide from public scrutinity. The culling of some of the Corvid family MIGHT be justified if there is strong evidence that they are causing a reduction of other,
protected species BUT how can the killing of wrens, robins, hedge sparrows (dunnets), and various finches, etc., be of benefit. We shall soon be like Malta! No birds left.
Notifying us more than 12 months after the event is the biggest joke of all time - no details, no name of the licencee, no reliable evidence of the numbers killed! This is yet another example of truly senseless decisions made by members of the Party, that I (sadly) have supported for the last 60 years of my life. When the "head walla" loses his/her marbles, it follows that the little people down the line will, likewise, lose theirs!
Hey ho, will it ever change?

Katrina van Grouw link

15/4/2019 12:00:43 pm

Indeed, Trish's comment was spot on.
I don't support the argument in favour of reducing corvids on the grounds that they're effecting numbers of other species, however.
Strimming back hedgerows in March and April, netting prime nesting sites, excessive use of pesticides, removal of hedgerows and field margins - these are the sorts of practices that force birds to nest in areas without adequate cover, and these ultimately are the reasons why intelligent and resourceful predators like corvids are able to thrive.
I realise that there's a long tradition of culling corvids, but I would argue that their current numbers are the effect of bad habitat management, and not the cause of dwindling populations of farmland and urban birds. Culling corvids is not the answer.

Mike Morris

10/4/2019 06:13:06 pm

Am I right in assuming that Natural England only issue licences for shooting to take place on Natural England - owned land? If so, how can applicants demonstrate that there is a problem with birds on such land? Surely, if Natural England believed there was a problem with birds on their land, they would take advice from a reputable source in order to address the perceived problem, rather than issue licences to applicants whose status may not even be checked. Also, it would be interesting to know if a fee was payable for such licences; how much that fee was; and whether this source of income was sufficiently lucrative to explain Natural England's apparent readiness to grant them.

Carole Sutton

10/4/2019 06:44:06 pm

Well done, Jason. A step forward BUT forget the right to privacy and confidentiality - this is about the right of our precious birds to live. No licence should be issued until the application has been made public and for people to raise any objections they have to the authorities. It is all too late when the act has been committed and the birds are dead.

Sarah Reisz

10/4/2019 07:04:18 pm

Thank you so much Jason - your blog and efforts are very much appreciated at a time when agencies (including, sadly, some NGOs) are failing to carry out their remit and actually protect our wildlife.

I think getting more transparency in this way is good but alas without more public knowledge of applicants and their motives, I find it increasingly hard to trust NE to exercise any real scrutiny on either ours - or wildlife's - behalf. We need to stop this destruction rather than just know about it...There's always the danger that the public simply become 'accustomed' to this as the new normal and stop being outraged by it.

BRIAN COOPER

10/4/2019 07:18:57 pm

Thanks for the feedback.
I guess that I would categorise Mr Diamond appearing to be a do nothing administrator who always prefers the way forward to be the status quo.
To me we have a classic case of desire for non-transparency until such time as no-one can call our work in to question as by then it will be too late.

I want to pick up on things in your feedback.

"We need to protect peoples' right to privacy and confidentiality".
Is this Natural England trying to hide behind the Data Protection Act. If that is the case as you rightly say there is a direct parallel in the planning application system which surely needs to be explored. I would have thought that the Information Commissioner would offer an opinion on this https://ico.org.uk/

“Later this year, Natural England will begin to publish figures on their website which will detail the number of licences issued by the agency, including those issued to kill birds. The first set of figures, will be published sometime in 2019 (Mr Diamond couldn't provide an exact date but assures me it will be this year)”
I fail to see why this up to 24 month individual application delay and 12 month annualised delay is necessary. How do Natural England senior management monitor trends etc. If I were the senior manager in charge of this application system, I would expect the information we are talking about to be update monthly for review. This is no different that would be expected for financial management and health and safety management etc.

“He maintains that publishing the figures will, however, 'divert staff from working in other important areas', although my own opinion would be that this information is key to gaining public trust in the agency's activities and, as such, is an essential part of their work.”
This is a lame excuse. If Natural England have an effective reporting system that can be monitored by senior managers (see previous comments} the delivery of the relevant data set to their website would be of minimal time and cost.

Andy Churchill

11/4/2019 09:03:28 pm

Thanks for your work on this Jason. Beginning to be some progress. But I agree with Brian. Retrospectively publishing information they already collect is not seriously going to take up much staff time. Sounds like the first response from an official, who is hoping we will go away soon.

Rosemary Sparks

10/4/2019 07:32:40 pm

I cannot understand why are hedges being netted.

Michael Kilian

10/4/2019 09:28:45 pm

The question needs to be answered how many of these birds are to be culled and for what reason, it's not good enough to release figures after the event and perhaps to issue a statement at the end of 2019 saying no more licences will be issued because the species are now extinct.

Susan Penny

10/4/2019 09:46:23 pm

What is the bird problem with house sparrows. I thought the problem was that they were disappearing.

Lyn Norman

10/4/2019 10:24:59 pm

Thanks so much for opening up a dialogue with "Natural England" - much mis-named, I think. How on earth can anyone rely on honesty of those carrying out these killings? There appears to be no oversight and probably no reliable data. Maybe statistics on how many licences have not been renewed for non reporting by the licencee should be made available and would be revealing.

Jonathan Forsythe

11/4/2019 06:43:05 am

Hi, you could try making dummy licence applications that are obviously done carelessly or where the applicant is obviously lying, to see if they get granted.

And then publish the results and the dummy applications if they get authorised. To make your point!

Richard Crowe

11/4/2019 12:57:25 pm

Thanks for the work you have done. I still remember as a boy coming across a crow gibbet in a Hertfordshire field with numbers of dead crows hanging from it. An archaic practice that it seems just got more official in its form.
As we are talking about wildlife I'd like to draw attention to the devastating practice of farming interests in chopping back hedgerows to within an inch of their life. They are the natural countryside habitat of so much wildlife and plant species and are being ruthlessly decimated. Its not hard to see ...I see the miles of hedges so treated travelling from Cornwall to London and a bus trip across Devon showed just how bad it has got in that county. I raised the matter with th Wildlife trust but I fear that trying to quietly improve farmers attitudes will not yield much of a change ...whereas widespread public awareness and anger will.

Sarah Spencer

12/4/2019 10:05:51 am

Thanks for your time and dedication Jason. Until signing your petition and reading your report I knew nothing about this. All the previous comments are absolutely right. How can any licences to kill be granted under such flimsy terms and the details of those licenses only being made public after the event is outrageous. I’m sure that NE have probably been unable or unwilling to properly monitor the impact of the licences being granted. As others have said many of the species included are in critical decline so what on earth is going on. Do NE liaise with any other agencies before making there licensing decisions ie RSPB or the Wildlife Trusts, if not they should be made to.

Audrey Blackwell link

17/4/2019 05:55:38 pm

I am following this worrying shooting of ALL types/Breeds of Birds and i cannot see how this can be allowed to go on in this day and age when Wildlife in general is in need of Protection and help in light of ALL the netting of Hedges/Trees with the ripping out of said Hedges/Trees it is not what Wildlife can cope with its a scandal.?

Annie link

23/4/2019 08:54:59 pm

NETTING!!!!! why is anyone allowing this? the morons in France, Cyprus and Italy to name a few, are killing MILLIONS of migrating birds. Its disgusting and I am aghast that the UK is allowing this.

Gary Haigh link

1/5/2019 04:27:48 pm

You have my full support, I also note that a council in Cambridge are now using long spikes in trees to prevent nesting and perching of birds.

JASON ENDFIELD

Natural England Petition Update: Some Progress Made...

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